open: don't let the wine go to your brains

[untamedantinous]

It shouldn’t be this hard to prepare for a meeting. He’s done it countless times before. However, this time, it somehow is difficult. He’s never really had to set things up at times like this; and he knows as well as anyone else that he is not the best at social niceties. Granted, this meeting is in a much more well-appointed cafe than any he had ever been accustomed to holding space in in Paris. At least they have the benefit of a larger space. Consequently, Enjolras has spent much of the day of the eighth of Menestheus preparing, a little uncertain of how to plan a social gathering that is not immediately centered around planning a revolution. He is trying his best, at least.

Most of the tables and chairs have been pushed a bit more to the center of the room; the couch is arranged off to the opposite side. There are even various pillows scattered about, should anyone choose to sit on the floor. Arranged on a few of the larger tables and the counter there is a modest spread of food: of course, some of Laertes and Galahad’s pastries; but Enjolras has also procured what amounts to a few charcuterie platters: sliced sausages and meats, a selection of (mostly French) cheese, and various sliced loaves of bread and crackers are laid out for perusal, and spreads to go along with them. In an effort to provide multiple options of entertainment, Grantaire has set up a table somewhat near the food, with an assortment of wines and liqueurs. Off to one side, there are a few pots of brewed coffee, cream, sugar, and whatever else anyone might like to add to their beverage of choice. If anyone is drawn to the liquor cabinet, they will find three cups filled with various pieces of paper sitting atop it.

Enjolras himself is lingering on the couch with a glass of wine and some bread. He’s not sure how many people were even informed about this gathering, though he had done his best to advertise. If no one arrives then perhaps he will try again another time; but at least a few in attendance other than himself and Grantaire would certainly be welcome.

Comments

[futaille]

"Oh, are you implying that exacting standard to noodles as well, then? Because I for one cannot think of a noodle that doesn't have a name other than 'noodle'."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan rolls his eyes. "Skill issue," he says. "Noodles,¹ noodles,² noodles,³ noodles⁴—" He frowns. "Wait, shit, the translator."

¹ Yóu miàn.
² Liáng miàn.
³ Lāo miàn.
⁴ Cū miàn.

[futaille]

He laughs. "I get the idea. France borders Italy, I could add several more. Which is exactly my point. Different noodles have different names just like different breads. So if you logically extend your restriction, you are at a disadvantage as well."

[peaklordshen]

"Well, wait," says Shen Yuan, pivoting because Grantaire actually does have a point. "Okay. So if bread and noodles are the same, then falafel should be discounted, because it only has one name."

[futaille]

"I am not enough of an expert in falafel to say with any certainty, but it does seem as if it's a strangely dissimilar matchup. Comparing cabbages and carrots."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan wrinkles his nose. "No, no, comparing cabbages and carrots is reasonable. They're both vegetables."

[futaille]

He blinks. "Oh! Oh, no, it's just a phrase¹. Of course you can actually compare vegetables, but I was being figurative."

¹Did I look up French equivalents to comparing apples and oranges? Yes. Yes I did.

[peaklordshen]

"Oh, like the English expression apples to oranges," says Shen Yuan. "Sure, I'm familiar. I don't think there's really an equivalent in Chinese."¹ He twirls the end of his brain around one finger idly. "Bread and noodles, then."

¹ If there is, this typist can't find it!

[futaille]

"Bread and noodles. Although maybe you could compare falafel with your favorite noodles."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan's favorite noodles are obviously the ones Binghe made on their first date, but comparing any food with Binghe-crafted food really is cheating, and anyway Galahad probably wouldn't eat those noodles without this argument becoming distinctly less fun. Shen Yuan's second favorite noodles are the ones from the takeout place by his meimei's apartment with spicy pork and green onion, and his third favorite noodles are cup noodles with a perfectly softboiled egg. Of those three, the last ones are really the only replicable ones, because they're the least context-specific. But eliminating two vastly superior kinds of noodle just because they're context-specific is deeply dissatisfying to him. "Hm. We should figure out a way to determine the scientifically best kind of noodle, and then compare that with falafel."

[futaille]

"Is there a scientifically best kind of noodle? It seems to me just as subjective as the entire exercise is in the first place."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan rolls his eyes. "Oh, so now we're just admitting to things being subjective?? Doesn't that undercut the whole purpose of arguing in the first place?"

[futaille]

"If something isn't subjective, there is no point in arguing it. Someone trying to argue that adding two and two results in sixty just looks like an idiot."

[peaklordshen]

"But you can argue that something is objectively better than something else, because if you're saying that it's just subjectively better you're not arguing at all, you're just stating an opinion really loudly."

[futaille]

"And you're under the impression you can't argue about opinions?"

[peaklordshen]

"Not if you acknowledge them as subjective," argues Shen Yuan, "because to acknowledge something as subjective means it's, like, personal and formed from the other person's experiences, and I can't argue with your experiences because I'm not the one that had them."

[futaille]

"Yes, but if your opponent is arguing in good faith, a compelling enough argument could sway them regardless, if you make a point that has not occurred to them despite their personal experiences. Because you also bring your own personal experiences to it and in arguing, you both have the opportunity to share the benefits of your own individual experiences."

[peaklordshen]

"Yeah, obviously, but that's just another way of saying that you're making them see the objective truth of your argument," counters Shen Yuan. "The more you can make them see something, the closer they're getting to having the objectively correct opinion."

[futaille]

"No, the closer they're getting to sharing your subjective opinion, and even then they'll likely not share it in all particulars, which makes things much more interesting, as makes for a fuller spectrum."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan frowns, slightly. "But if your opinion clarifies and shifts theirs because of the arguments you're making or the perspective you're bringing, doesn't that make it a more objective opinion than theirs?"

[futaille]

"Or you just have a convincing argument. But then, perhaps the definition of objectivity has shifted between our times."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan rolls his eyes. "Oh, so now there's subjective definitions of objectivity? Please."

[futaille]

"It's hard to tell. After all, you seem to have one."

[peaklordshen]

"You don't?"

[futaille]

"Objective is objective. Objectively, you're taller than I am. Opinions are in the realm of subjectivity. Subjectively, pinball is more entertaining to play than Smash Brothers."