open: don't let the wine go to your brains

[untamedantinous]

It shouldn’t be this hard to prepare for a meeting. He’s done it countless times before. However, this time, it somehow is difficult. He’s never really had to set things up at times like this; and he knows as well as anyone else that he is not the best at social niceties. Granted, this meeting is in a much more well-appointed cafe than any he had ever been accustomed to holding space in in Paris. At least they have the benefit of a larger space. Consequently, Enjolras has spent much of the day of the eighth of Menestheus preparing, a little uncertain of how to plan a social gathering that is not immediately centered around planning a revolution. He is trying his best, at least.

Most of the tables and chairs have been pushed a bit more to the center of the room; the couch is arranged off to the opposite side. There are even various pillows scattered about, should anyone choose to sit on the floor. Arranged on a few of the larger tables and the counter there is a modest spread of food: of course, some of Laertes and Galahad’s pastries; but Enjolras has also procured what amounts to a few charcuterie platters: sliced sausages and meats, a selection of (mostly French) cheese, and various sliced loaves of bread and crackers are laid out for perusal, and spreads to go along with them. In an effort to provide multiple options of entertainment, Grantaire has set up a table somewhat near the food, with an assortment of wines and liqueurs. Off to one side, there are a few pots of brewed coffee, cream, sugar, and whatever else anyone might like to add to their beverage of choice. If anyone is drawn to the liquor cabinet, they will find three cups filled with various pieces of paper sitting atop it.

Enjolras himself is lingering on the couch with a glass of wine and some bread. He’s not sure how many people were even informed about this gathering, though he had done his best to advertise. If no one arrives then perhaps he will try again another time; but at least a few in attendance other than himself and Grantaire would certainly be welcome.

Comments

[peaklordshen]

For a second Shen Yuan imagines Galahad playing pinball on the plainest, saddest pinball machine of all time, and then waves it away to continue arguing. "But them not enjoying loud, beautiful pinball doesn't make the machine less beautiful, and doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people would choose something aesthetically pleasing over something that isn't."

[futaille]

"Of course. But that just makes it a very common opinion, not an objective fact. Facts make the structure of existence but it's the opinions that decorate it and actually make it interesting."

[peaklordshen]

"Okay," says Shen Yuan, crossing his arms. "Let's pretend that's true. Tell me a fact."

[futaille]

"Earth is mostly covered in water."

[peaklordshen]

This is, Shen Yuan has to admit, a pretty good fact, but he soldiers on. "How do we know?"

[futaille]

"A great number of people in boats making maps."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan blinks. "Right, you're—right. I forgot I was speaking from future privilege. See, I know because a great number of people worked together to send a small number of people to space and they took photographs of it."

[futaille]

"Well, that's remarkable. Quite the opportunity."

[peaklordshen]

"Yeah, it's wild," says Shen Yuan. "Anyway—I'm not arguing that the Earth isn't mostly covered in water, I'm not, like, a flat-earther or whatever. But that's a fact because it's a consensus of experiences. Both your boat guys and my astronauts observed the world and drew conclusions about it, and those conclusions were backed up by everyone who used the boat maps to navigate or whatever, everyone who looked at pics of the earth, and the consensus of that became the fact. And if you told that fact to—I don't know, someone from far further back than anyone here, before they'd made all your boat maps, they'd disagree, because it conflicts with their consensus reality."

[futaille]

"I admit I am now curious as to what your line between fact and opinion is."

[peaklordshen]

"It's not really like there's a line," says Shen Yuan. "It's like—every opinion and experience is closer or further from the objective truth of a thing, including factual reality, and an opinion becomes more or less correct as it moves closer or farther from that objective truth."

[futaille]

"Ah, I see. Plato's shadows on the cave wall, then."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan has never read Plato's republic, but he's been online in his life, so he gets the reference. "Basically. You disagree?"

[futaille]

"Oh, I'll happily disagree with anything," he says with a grin. "That said, I think some things are inherently subjective. 'Better', for instance, is firmly in the field of opinion, even if that opinion is a near universal consensus."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan shakes his head. "I just think there's two kinds of better," he says, "better objectively in terms of nearness to, like Plato's Truth or whatever, and then better for specific people, based on their unique experiences and how much they like flashing lights or whatever."

[futaille]

"But something that is truly objectively better wouldn't be able to be worse for specific people based on their unique experiences, or it wouldn't be objective. Something actually objective is true regardless of personal experience. Therefore I put forth that far fewer things are objective than most people think, and even those bare facts that are widely regarded as objectively true still do have the potential to need refinement based on further discovery."

[peaklordshen]

"Well—" Shen Yuan shifts, uncomfortable. It's true that something he's always considered objective, unshakeable fact (Luo Binghe is the hottest man in any world and anyone would fall at his feet and spread their legs if given half a chance to know him carnally) has proven to be both much more subjectively true (Shen Yuan is himself interested in knowing hot men carnally) and untrue for other people (many people here who are interested in men are somehow not interested in knowing Luo Binghe carnally, or at least not as interested as they should be).

But—that doesn't mean he's ready to let go of the idea that being interested in Luo Binghe is more correct than not being interested. Because it is. And he suspects Grantaire might have a similarly subjective sticking point. "So—for example. You're saying there's no objectively most beautiful man at this Mansion."

[futaille]

Well there is absolutely zero doubt that Grantaire's gaze is inevitably going to stray to Enjolras at that question. "I am saying exactly that, although I certainly have a personal preference."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan shakes his head. "Damn, I really thought you were enough of a simp to fold on that one."

[futaille]

"How boring the world would be if everyone had the same tastes as I did." A brief pause. "And how annoyed Enjolras would be at the legions of people hanging on his every word," he adds with a wry grin.

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan shakes his head. "Not everyone's cut out for six hundred wives." He's not sure Enjolras could handle one wife, even a male one, but that seems rude to say to the guy currently gunning for the position.

[futaille]

"I think it's safe to say most people aren't cut out for six hundred wives."

[peaklordshen]

Shen Yuan could point out that this is another point in Binghe's favor—he might not have actually loved any of his wives, but he'd created a sustainable harem system out of an unbelievably complicated and badly written political situation through the use of his big brain and bigger dick. But he's not sure it would do any good for Grantaire, who seems to have undermined his entire concept of argument in the last... however long they've been arguing. He makes a face, sips his drink, and changes the subject. "Why is all of the rooms changing here a net positive?" He taps his notebook. "Point two."

[futaille]

"I thought that one was obvious enough. If we're in the confines of one main building and its grounds, if nothing changed it would be absolutely dull and intolerable long-term. Yes, occasionally where you were going is in a new spot, but it's usually close enough to find easily and you get to have used your brain for a bit."

[peaklordshen]

Well, okay, how come now Shen Yuan, who had spent 90% of his first life in basically the same building and the majority of his second life begging off anything that would take him out of his cute little bamboo house where his favorite disciple brought him delicious snacks, is being forced to yet again consider that his experiences are not universal??? He was trying to change the subject!

But, wait, is this a chance to give Grantaire a taste of his own medicine? "It would be intolerable for you," he points out. "Others may prefer the stability of rooms staying where they are, or a more Logical—" borrowing the capital L from Kade, "—means of attaining food, and drink, and books, and games than vague wishes and guesswork. Can you really say it's objectively better?"